Entangled Weapons Fight part 16,985

I spend a great deal of time teaching people how to defend themselves in an entangled fight with the possibility of weapons being present or involved. These events happen a lot, whether the good guy is armed with a handgun or not, so I will continue to teach the important skills needed to survive these attacks. I have lost count of how many videos or documented stories along these lines I have posted or talked about in the last 20+ years, but I will doubtless keep showing new ones, since they come across my feed on a weekly basis. 

Today’s video is a fascinating one, because it illustrates quite clearly how these events happen. This involves an off duty cop so it is a perfect equivalent of a private citizen encounter. Unlike an uniformed officer whose occupation puts them into situations that a citizen should never have to copy, this video would just as likely happen to a regular person carrying a concealed handgun. 

As you can see, while there is plenty of room to move, the idea of “breaking contact” or “keeping distance” even in an open space is extremely difficult because if you can move freely, so can the bad guy! And they have the initiative when they begin their aggressive drive so it is far easier for them to close on you than it is for you to keep away from them. 

Also note that there are no preparatory motions or actions by the bad guy. As soon as he gets a favorable angle, he rockets into action. Too often we envision that we will have plenty of time to recognize what is happening when the reality is we are more likely to have no time to act preemptively. 

The bad guy purposefully made contact because somehow he knew the good guy had a gun, whether there was a tell of some kind or he got lucky. The point is that he drove in to make the entanglement happen. It did not just occur. 

The good guy made a number of mistakes in her countering skills. If she had ever worked this grappling skill set, it was not a whole lot of time based on her actions. She got lucky because the attacker was less skilled than she was. That is probably not a good plan for future situations. 

One key teaching point (and super positive thing she managed to achieve) that I want to harp on, is an action she did. I can’t be sure if it was intentional or she got lucky and it happened, but she managed to square her hips. That is one of the two key things to do with your hips and it puts you in control of the dance, and this is obvious from seeing it here. She gained massively superior control and won the encounter because of that key movement. It allowed her better access to her gun, and it enabled her to restrict the bad guy’s access. If she had not been able to do this, the chance she would be able to get her gun out and on target would be incredibly remote. 

This had a good outcome, but it was a close run thing. Learn from this. Be prepared and understand how to deal with it.

The Remainder of 2023 Schedule

I know I have been ridiculously slow getting this out to the public, but between family medical issues and getting my Academy up and running, I have not had much free time. In fact, I had to postpone a number of seminars because I was so swamped. I am finally getting things to where they should be, so I managed to get this all listed. Fortunately, I am not on the road again until late August, so there is plenty of time for everyone to see where they can attend. If anyone has any questions, please reach out to me at anytime. Hope to see you on the mats or the range!

August

18-20

IAC

Dearborn, MI

To register: hildegardtraining@gmail.com

September

1-3

NPE Counter Robbery

Escondido, CA

Register:   https://www.eventbrite.com/e/npe-counter-robbery-escondido-ca-91-32023-tickets-622636280877

(can use the code “DEPOSIT” to put 50% down)

8-9

Entangled Handgun

Terre Haught, IN

Contact:    TBA

22-24

Combatives Summit

Auburndale, FL

Register:     https://combativessummit.com/checkouts/summit2023/

 October

6-8

IAC

Lacey, WA

Contact:  avalancheadventures@pm.me

13-15

NPE Counter Robbery

Grandview, TX

Register:    https://www.eventbrite.com/e/npe-counter-robbery-tickets-384285828257

(use code “DEPOSIT” to put 50% down)

 November

17-20

Revolver Round Up

Gunsite AZ

Register:    https://www.gunsite.com/classes/pat-rogers-memorial-revolver-round-up/

December

 1-3

IAC

Yadkinville, NC

Register:  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/immediate-action-combatives-seminar-north-carolina-121-32023-tickets-621219854307

Use the code “DEPOSIT” to put 50% down

New Student Issues

One of the banes of an instructor’s existence is the less experienced or newer student who insists after being given a piece of advice or a correction, ” I’ve got it”, when the fact is they probably don’t.  This goes for the martial art side as well as the shooting side. and in fact in any endeavor or when any instructor is teaching.

I have been teaching since 1987, and at this period in my life I’ve taught over 10,000 different students and I feel pretty safe in saying that the above statement by the new student is not a willful disregard of instruction, or intentional disrespect. I believe it boils down to two separate but occasionally intertwined issues.  The first is they did not really process everything that you said, and the second is they don’t really know what their body is doing.

 What I mean when I say they did not process or internalize what you said is that less experienced students tend to be outcome-centered and are focusing on the end state. For example, in a Jiu-Jitsu submission they are focusing on the final part of the move where they can get the tap, when in reality the important steps are all the waypoints before that. They don’t realize that (because so much of the information you are giving them is brand new and probably unlike anything they have done in the past) and they are focused on the last part where they can feel like they’ve accomplished something. You see that in shooting as well where during a drill they ignore clearing the Garment, obtaining the master grip, proper presentation, getting the sights up, and smooth trigger press and just think of firing enough rounds to finish the drill. The problem is both with the Jiu-Jitsu example and the shooting example is that the end state will most likely fail because of the mistakes on the path (outcome vs process).

 I can illustrate this by looking at a classic Jiu Jitsu arm bar. Most people will focus on the final extension of stretching out the arm and getting the tap. Then they don’t understand why the tap isn’t happening. They were concentrating on the cool guy end state, and not each key step of the process until you get to the part where you can stretch the arm. In this case with an arm bar the typical mistakes are not squeezing the knees together, interlocking the feet, not bringing the heels in towards yourself, and/or not keeping weight on the opponent’s head. These are all occurring earlier in the move but are crucial for a successful execution. As somebody who’s been teaching this for 25 years I can tell you when and how the new person is going to mess up. It’s like the insurance commercial – I know a thing or two because I have seen a thing or two.

In my opinion the responsibility for this lies on the instructor. We have to ensure that the new student is focused on the process and we need to be careful and getting across the idea that each step is critical and to not rush through to the end. This is the only way the inexperienced or new student will internalize this concept, and be able to have long term success. 

The other area where the student generally messes up is in not having well developed kinesthetic awareness and proprioception. Most people are not born with a great understanding of what their body is doing and where they are in space, especially in relation to other people. The great athletes like a Jordan or an Ali generally have this and that’s one of the reasons they are referred to as phenoms. While they may have other attributes, a truly great athlete most of the time has great kinesthetic awareness and purpose. When the instructor is teaching the student it is crucial that we point out the actual physical movements and get across the idea to the student what they should be feeling as it happens until they are able to viscerally feel it for themselves. This can be a long path for many. It was for me, and I spent many years at jiujitsu stumbling along and not really improving. Not due to my Professor, but to my own inability to understand the physical movement when it needs to occur.

This is where students need to be very careful. Don’t assume that because you’ve learned a technique once or even a few times that you understand it, that you grasp it fully, and that your body is performing the physical action required. The truth is you’ve probably missed a good chunk of those, if not all. That’s not a criticism or an insult. It is just a simple truth. Almost every great instructor was right there at the beginning making the same mistakes and having the same misunderstandings. When we try to tell  the student that you are doing something wrong, don’t take it as an attack. We’re trying to help you correct it, and make you better. 

Some people reading this probably are going to take this as an elitist talking down. It is absolutely not. It does not affect me negatively if you argue with me when I am teaching, or dismiss my instruction with the “I’ve got it”, or even “well, I learned it this way”. The only person that is hurt is the student. Moreover, in this world of social media, I am trying to save you from making a dogmatic comment online that you will look back later on and be embarrassed about. A few years ago, a person argued with me on Facebook that the Americana (a BJJ arm attack) is a move fit only for white belts. This person writing this was either a white or blue belt and when I pointed out that it is one of my best submissions, and I got it all the time, he wrote that “I must not roll with good people very often”……If he ever took the time to find out who he was arguing with, I am sure he is extremely embarrassed that he wrote that for posterity, and most likely prefers to forget it ever happened. I have had those kinds of interactions for 25 years. Don’t be that guy. It is safer to assume you are wrong than to argue with someone who has depth and breadth of experience and knowledge demonstrably superior to your own.

Hopefully both newer instructors and new students gain a bit of understanding from this so we both can move forward and all get better.

Yet Another Entangled Fight

I would like one of the internet experts who insist that no private citizen will ever be involved in an entangled fight in a weapons based environment to explain this headline to me. I know we can complain about “fake news”, but this seems like it actually happened.  

Let’s look at the headline: “Arizona armed suspect storms into smoke shop and tackles armed employee”. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is a private citizen involved in an entangled weapons fight that was not of his choosing and that was initiated by the armed bad guy who already had his weapon out and who voluntarily closed the distance onto the good guy.

Also note that the good guy was armed and had his handgun in his waistband. I can hear the people screaming now “but Cecil! If he only had good situational awareness he would have been able to get the gun out early!” What a load of crap. The guy is a clerk at a shop where people are walking in and out constantly throughout the day. Do you really think that any human being would be aware that the person coming in the door is any different than the other hundred people he sees during that day?  And keep in mind the size of the store, it’s very small. We know thanks to the Tueller Principle that an average human can cross seven yards in a second and a half. From the front door to the counter in this smoke shop it’s a lot less than 7 yards  so, even if you have a sub second draw the bad guy is still going to be on you before you have time to do anything. Unlike drills on a shooting range, you can’t have your gun out and ready to go in a moment’s notice. Try pointing your gun at every customer that walks in the door. See how that goes for you. 

 The bad guy rapidly closed the distance, made contact with the good guy and created an entanglement. Fortunately the good guy was able to fight back in a manner where he was able to get his gun out and fight back and end the situation properly and safely. My guess is that it was Pure Luck. I doubt the good guy had any particular skill set in grappling. and I can absolutely guarantee you he had put zero time into grappling with guns available. So the fact that he made it through this can only be chalked up to luck and a good fighting mindset. However, basing future survivability on luck is not a good plan. In reality, it is the height of stupidity. 

And this particular incident resonates with me because this smoke shop is just over 15 miles from my own Academy and I have regularly been in that area where this took place. So please don’t tell me these things don’t happen because they do, and if you want to keep your head in the sand that’s fine. But I have the calling to help people and I want them to stay alive and I’m not going to pretend these things never happen. We need to be prepared mentally emotionally and physically to deal with them. Wishful thinking doesn’t help. Ever. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/armed-arizona-suspect-storms-smoke-shop-tackles-armed-employee-ends-shot-critically-injured

Oklahoma City Seminar October 22-33, 2022

I will be in OKC Oct 22-23 teaching my Close Contact Handgun course.

This class is about NOT GOING HANDS ON. It is all about how to minimize that chance. Which sounds super easy (and we have all the nice pithy phrases to give us mental comfort) but is actually incredibly difficult.

This is the fundamental base where we try to ensure that we don’t end up in an entanglement, and we can use our handgun to maximum effect. There is some very minor physical contact in the class, but it is extremely limited, making the course suitable for anyone who is looking to get their feet wet in the close range self-defense envelope.

In this class we will look at ways to maintain distance, using verbalization, footwork, positioning, and awareness to keep distance from an aggressive criminal, and to utilize the pistol in a manner in which we can prevent him from stopping us. The focus is on NOT getting entangled and having to get into a physical fight, but rather to use the pistol the way it is intended to be used – at a distance.

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/close-contact-handgun-tickets-329280375467?fbclid=IwAR3DelGo1y9XjToPdQIGsLwZ-snjcuPqoYy4PWUDcGdUrH4V2vNDLYF6qtc

Entangled Weapon Fight Once Again

And again we revisit an entangled weapons fight involving private citizens. Even though many SMEs will try to still insist that these things never happen, they do.

From Texas on September 14th. Take note that neither man is a skilled grappler but it still went to an entanglement. As a matter of fact, the gun being there made the entanglement far MORE likely rather than less. People don’t want to be shot, and if they are not paralyzed with fear, they will instinctively grab for the weapon and/or control. It is stunning to see how so many “experts” can’t grasp this fundamental concept.

Also notice that even though the older man brought the gun to the fight, the younger guy got control and took it, and could have easily used it to kill the older guy. The gun is not a magic talisman that works just because it is there. Nor does it work as an intimidator if the other guy refuses to accept the intimidation. If you cannot control the position and the actions of the other person, and they are within 4-5 yards, having control of your gun is a crapshoot.

Oklahoma City Coursework – Close Contact Handgun

I will be in OKC Oct 22-23 teaching my Close Contact Handgun course.

This class is about NOT GOING HANDS ON. It is all about how to minimize that chance. Which sounds super easy (and we have all the nice pithy phrases to give us mental comfort) but is actually incredibly difficult.

This is the fundamental base where we try to ensure that we don’t end up in an entanglement, and we can use our handgun to maximum effect. There is some very minor physical contact in the class, but it is extremely limited, making the course suitable for anyone who is looking to get their feet wet in the close range self-defense envelope.

In this class we will look at ways to maintain distance, using verbalization, footwork, positioning, and awareness to keep distance from an aggressive criminal, and to utilize the pistol in a manner in which we can prevent him from stopping us. The focus is on NOT getting entangled and having to get into a physical fight, but rather to use the pistol the way it is intended to be used – at a distance.

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/close-contact-handgun-tickets-329280375467?fbclid=IwAR3LmIhyR5K_UOhg6RbjeBQkPbZEW4NSS7MrlEXlpWQQcgZpwdXWgc7rPtQ

Yet Again – Entangled Weapons Fight

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10985233/Brazilian-couple-beats-mugger-tried-use-fake-pistol-rob-them.html

And yet again we have another video that according to many SMEs in the training community never happens. An entangled fight with weapons involving only private citizens.

This one is particularly good for a few reasons, and I post it to illustrate some interesting aspects.

  1. Note the actions of the good guy in the foreground. This is a guy who is either really lucky, or has some training. As soon as the interaction happens, he squares up to the unknown contact and pay attention to how he sets himself up to move to the guy’s back. Also, there is zero hesitation – he recognizes what is happening and that action is needed. I would love to know his story because it is picture perfect in how to deal with this.
  2. Watch how the good guy takes the robber’s back, and controls the limbs, and by doing so, he owns the weapon, not the guy who brought it to the fight. Hmm. I have seen this before. Where could it be? Oh yeah, in everything that Craig Douglas, Paul Sharp, Larry Lindenman, Chris Fry, myself, or a handful of others like John Valentine and Ben from Redbeard Combatives have been teaching all this time. Weird, it is almost like we have worked this problem…..
  3. Also ponder how this is BJJ 101 – control the position and the limbs, and you dictate what happens in the fight.
  4. Look and see where the fight goes – straight to the ground. For all those people who screech about “not going to the ground because you will get killed”, how do they answer this? Going to the ground here was an incredibly awesome end state. It allowed the good guys to completely control what the bad guy did, and it minimized the options the bad guy had to fight back. In short, going to the ground was an absolute win, and probably an easier win than if they had tried to keep the bad guy upright.
  5. The final point I would like to make is the absurdity that many people in the training community like to proselytize about – “Always carry your gun”. That sounds great, and for LE, ex-LE, .mil or .gov guys on duty it works fine. For the average person, not so much. The fact is that there are many situations where regardless of what you want to do, you cannot carry a firearm. The reason I hate this trope so much is that it essentially says the only way to defend yourself is with a gun, and facing a weapon without one is a death sentence. Well, yeah, if you have not trained it under realistic pressure, you most likely will fail. But with some training and some basic awareness and acceptance of how the world is, you can always have a chance to defend yourself. After all, you can never be disarmed of skill. Certainly carrying a firearm is good, and in an ideal world we can use it when necessary. Unfortunately, we don’t live in an ideal world. I, for one, refuse to accept that I am helpless without gun. And here is a shining example of how well that concept works for real.

Jiu Jitsu | pugilism | edged weapons | contact pistol